Student-created podcasts deepen tax learning

Editor: Annette Nellen, Esq., CPA, CGMA

When classes were virtual in fall 2020, students and faculty at Auburn University needed a way to feel connected without requiring additional hours in front of a screen. A professor’s love of podcasts inspired the idea of having students record podcasts about an area of tax they found interesting. Students worked in groups to produce a podcast that the professor and other students would listen to, with a listening quiz to ensure comprehension. Students and faculty learned a lot about tax — and about each other — as students’ individual personalities often shone through. Getting away from the screen to listen to a podcast, often during a walk or a car ride, provided a nice relief and gave students discussion topics during virtual class meetings and office hours.

Students also reported that the podcast was a good way to get to know their classmates prior to working on more technical projects together. Initially, the assignment was in a graduate tax research course but has now also been used successfully in an undergraduate introduction to tax course. The professor who started the podcasts still uses this assignment almost every semester and finds it very rewarding when students start exploring tax questions in their everyday lives and develop their interest in taxation. Each class section has its own season of the podcast, called Auburn Tax Talk, which is in its ninth season.

Getting started

To familiarize students with podcasts, the professor recorded a podcast that was composed of interviews of two tax professors, “Talking Research With Dr. Key and Dr. Mathishttps://www.buzzsprout.com/1365043/5525590-talking-research-with-dr-key-and-dr-mathis?t=0” (Season 1, Episode 1), about their careers, what it is like being a tax professor, and their research. Students were told ahead of time that an outline of the discussion had been created to ensure the interview went smoothly, and they were encouraged to do the same for their own podcasts, highlighting the importance of planning ahead and not just jumping straight to the recording process.

To further familiarize students with podcasts, students completed three homework assignments that required listening to a tax podcast and answering questions about the content (see the sidebar “Questions for Podcast Assignments”). This exposed students to some of the many great tax podcasts that exist while enabling them to learn selected material. The first assigned podcast covered a technical tax topic, the cap on the state and local tax deduction enacted by the law known as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, P.L. 115-97 (Tax Notes Talk podcast episode “An Overview of the Proposed SALT Regs”). This assignment was included in a homework assignment about administrative sources of the tax law to help students better understand the role of Treasury regulations and the process they go through to become final. The second podcast was an interview of Tax Court Judge Mark V. Holmes (Bloomberg Tax Talking Tax podcast episode “Buffalo Wings and Opinions: Judge Holmes Talks Tax”) to aid students’ understanding of the Tax Court and the types of cases it hears. The third assignment required students to select a podcast on a technical tax topic based on their interests and provide a written summary of what they learned.

Students start research and recording

After completing the preliminary podcast assignments, the students were ready to record their own podcasts. The first step for student groups was to select a tax topic. To ensure there was no overlap, students posted their selected topic on the course management system discussion board on a first-come, firstserved basis. The professor vetted topics to make sure they had a sufficient tax angle. The following list was provided to students to inspire topic selection:

• Current tax topics, such as the Inflation Reduction Act, OECD Pillars 1 and 2, etc.;
• Tax issues of a celebrity or sports figure;
• A court case with broad tax or societal implications;
• A specific technical topic such as value-added taxes or a particular tax credit;
• Taxes in history; and
• Anything you can think of that is tax-oriented — be creative!

The breadth of topics selected by students was great. Many selected celebrities with tax issues, such as musician Willie Nelson, reality television stars Todd and Julie Chrisley from Chrisley Knows Best, and lifestyle guru Martha Stewart. Major tax evasion cases such as those of Robert Brockman and Walter Anderson were also popular topics. Others selected technical topics such as student loan forgiveness, taxation of clergy, and conservation easements. Current topics were also common, such as the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act, P.L. 116-136; taxation of Venmo payments; and the tax platforms of presidential candidates.

Recording the first episode in September 2020 allowed the professor to learn the process of producing a podcast. A former student, Will McMurry, who has his own podcast (Roll It Forward With Will and Caspian), helped the professor learn the process and provided advice along the way. The university also provides resources to help faculty and students learn how to record a podcast, including handouts and videos demonstrating software (e.g., GarageBand and Adobe Audition), links to books and podcasts about podcasting, and guides for getting started. The library maintains an audio recording and editing studio where students can reserve time to record and use professional equipment and software.

The professor chose to use Zoom as an example because of its familiarity to students from their experiences with virtual classes and meetings, but students were encouraged to use any software and process they wanted. The professor illustrated how to record a podcast in Zoom during class using the record feature, highlighting the ability to pause and continue recording, and that Zoom saves a video and audio file. The audio file is used for the podcast and can be edited using software or submitted as the final product as recorded. Recording a podcast turned out to be easier than expected. A guide with the following step-by-step instructions was created and provided to students (pulled directly from the assignment):

1. Get organized: Research the topic, including identification of primary authority. The podcast should inform listeners about the topic; listeners want to learn about the interesting topic you have selected. Create an outline for the podcast. The podcast can be structured as a discussion, scripted story, or as a host interviewing “experts.” All group members are encouraged to talk, but it is not required. Nontalking group members should be more heavily involved in the research and production process. 
2. Record podcast: Recording in Zoom is easy. Change settings to record, which will save to a file. There is a separate audio-only file and a playback file. The audio-only file can be used as a podcast. The podcast should be at least 10 minutes long and no longer than 25–30 minutes. Make sure each speaker introduces themselves at the beginning. It can also be helpful to use names in handoffs (e.g., “Elizabeth, what do you think about the SALT cap?”).
3. Produce podcast: Edit your podcast. GarageBand can be used to add music at the beginning and to edit the voice file. There are many other programs that will do this. Audacity is a free option for Windows. It is fine to skip this step; the original audio-only file from Zoom will work. Do not use music subject to copyright unless you pay the royalty. GarageBand includes music available for use without paying a royalty.
4. Listener check: Create three questions about the podcast. These should be easy questions that a listener would know the answer to if they had listened to the podcast once. They do not have to be technical tax questions. 
5. Podcast art: Select a picture to be the cover art for your podcast that listeners will see when they look at the Auburn Tax Talk website, which lists all podcasts recorded since the start in September 2020. This can be a picture of your group, art you create, or a picture related to your topic that is not subject to copyright. 
6. Submit via course management system (Canvas): Submit the audio file, podcast art, and questions in a separate document. The podcast will be added to the podcast homepage. The podcasts were uploaded to a podcast hosting platform. The episode art was used as a podcast header, and the students’ first names were listed in the show notes. The use of a platform allowed other students to easily access the episodes by their classmates for the listening assignment. Students also reported that they were proud to share their podcast with family and friends. Buzzsprout was selected as the hosting platform; however, others are available. It is not necessary to use a hosting platform, as the podcasts can be stored and made available to students on a course management system such as Canvas.

Students were warned that the podcast should not include music or art subject to copyright restrictions. There are various ways to access and use music and sounds. For example, students were instructed to use GarageBand in the assignment, which has a library of free music and sounds. Students were encouraged to take a picture of their group or develop original artwork and cautioned against using artwork and images subject to copyright. This was a good opportunity to give context to what students learned about copyrights in a business law or principles of accounting class.

The instructor listened to the podcasts and gave detailed feedback in the course management system. In general, the technical details were correct, with some missing or incorrect details. In those cases, a note was made providing the correct information to the group. Comments were left linking the podcast content to the professor’s research and interests or to a topic covered in class to create a connection with the students. A graduate assistant uploaded the listening questions into an assignment quiz for students to take after listening to their selected podcasts. Students selected three podcasts to listen to and were given an extended period to complete the listening assignment.

Deep learning and increased interest in tax

It appeared that many students enjoyed recording the podcasts, with some including humorous dialogue and laughter. Others were more serious or read from a script. Often, the students’ personalities were the star of the show, with many relating their topic to personal stories or providing their opinion on the tax issue. Students reported finding commonality with their group members during topic selection and that they enjoyed working on a project with other students that did not involve preparing a paper or spreadsheet. A podcast turned out to be an effective and appreciated alternative to a virtual presentation for students who had already spent a lot of time on Zoom working on research memos with their group.

Many students were proud of their podcasts and wanted to discuss the details or ask questions about the topic, creating a great icebreaker for office hours. The professor found mentioning the students’ podcasts at the beginning of the meeting was a great way to make the students feel comfortable and get conversations going. Virtual classes inherently miss the personal aspects of an in-person class, such as conversations about current events and campus activities before and after class; however, students were overheard discussing podcasts they had listened to with classmates before class started on Zoom. In later semesters, when in-person classes had resumed, these conversations continued in person. Not only were personal connections made, but the connections were made over tax topics that were relevant to the students’ education.

Some of the topics that students covered related to the professor’s research (e.g., Apple’s European state aid case, renewable energy tax credits, and virtual currency), creating an opportunity for the professor to talk about the projects with students. Topics were also selected related to material from class, with students taking a deeper dive into the topic than what was covered in class. The professor was able to highlight students’ podcasts in content coverage, and the students appreciated the highlighting of their work. Other topics were unknown to the professor, giving the professor a chance to learn from the students.

It is also possible to assign topics. For example, in a recent semester, the professor gave students in a virtual section the option to give a virtual presentation or to record a podcast about a specific current tax topic (e.g., Moore, No. 22-800 (U.S. 6/26/23) (cert. granted) in which the U.S. Supreme Court heard oral argument on Dec. 5, 2023).

Months and years after having had them in class, the professor encounters students who still want to discuss their podcast or share how they encountered something they learned about from another student’s podcast. The podcasts had created connections between the students and the professor by spotlighting individuals, identifying shared interests, and giving common discussion topics, all while furthering the students’ tax education.

Relevance to practice

With the links readily available to the podcasts, students can easily add their podcast to their résumé, which might impress potential employers. The podcast also gives students a tax topic they can comfortably discuss with potential employers at career fairs and interviews. Firms might also want to consider using the now-employed student’s expertise gained by creating podcasts to do something similar for other employees or clients.

Professors might want practitioners to offer suggestions for possible topics, giving insight to what are important current tax topics. Another idea is for the students to engage with a professional on a podcast to discuss a recent tax development or issue.

Listening to podcasts is a good way to keep current with tax policy and tax practice developments as well as the broader field of accounting. As such, the podcast project is a good way to inspire lifelong learning as students become accustomed to listening and learning in this way.

Questions for podcast assignments

Assignment 1

• What is the SALT cap?
• What Code section is the SALT cap found in?
• What is the workaround states have tried to use to allow taxpayers to deduct their state and local taxes above the cap?
• Have regulations been issued?
• If so, what type (i.e., proposed, temporary, final)?

Assignment 2

• How does Judge Holmes describe the court’s place in the tax law ecosystem?
• What does Judge Holmes say about the types of taxpayers that end up in Tax Court?
• Read the Buffalo-wing case profiled in the podcast and write a case brief. A sample brief is included on Canvas. The case citation is Brown, T.C. Memo. 2019-69.

Contributors

Kerry Inger, Ph.D., M.Acc. Tax, is Harbert College Advisory Council Associate Professor at Auburn University in Auburn, Ala. Annette Nellen, Esq., CPA, CGMA, is a professor in the Department of Accounting and Finance at San José State University in San José, Calif., and is a past chair of the AICPA Tax Executive Committee. For more information about this column, contact thetaxadviser@aicpa.org.